 Rahman (compared to other music directors), was "Plug for swades" |
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| ashima0 |
 Jan 1 2005, 04:17 AM
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#1
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 268 Joined: 8-August 04 Member No.: 71  |
I am a pretty indiscriminate Rahman fan but still think Swades is up there among his best.
Check out 'pal pal hai bhaari'. Being a ram bhajan, it isn't top ten material but as an example of its genre it is sublime. Redoes North Indian Ramlila music like nobody's business. Surely it has to be a sign of genius for Rahman to compose in such a variety of musical forms and traditions without jarring fusion touches. Consider Lagaan's 'ghanan ghanan' as example - has to be one of the best all-time monsoon songs in a fairly overcrowded genre. What do people think? |
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| arnab |
Jan 1 2005, 05:36 AM
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 bandwidth glutton Group: founding members Posts: 15118 Joined: 21-July 04 From: northfield, minnesota Member No.: 1 |
has the film already been released in the u.s? i saw somewhere that it was supposed to be out this month.
-------------------- yeh sab kya ho raha hai, beta duryodhan? arnab@anothersubcontinent.com |
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| sudip |
Jan 1 2005, 07:47 AM
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#3
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 113 Joined: 13-December 04 Member No.: 205 |
Unfortunately, I am NOT a Rahman fan... To me he is a GREAT music composer, but not the ideal film music director... To me, a music director's skill does not solely lie in providing quality music and composing the most fascinating of fusions...Otherwise Ravi Shankar to Yanni, Zuben Mehta to Sergey Berinsky, every great composer would have been great film music directors.. To me the definition of a film music director is "someone, who, given a particular sequence, can generate music that portrays the emotional as well as factual spirit of that sequence." In other words, even if I do not know what's there in the movie, the song would give me a fairly close emotive and organic representation. As an example, I would cite this: 1942 A LOVE STORY: I love R.D. But I DID NOT like this one (I must have sparked off a riot by now  ) ..Because the music does not represent "1942". I have to watch the film and know the title to realize the fact...MUGHAL-E-AZAM: Superb music..Naushad takes you right back to the courtroom of 1500 AD without compromising on the emotional touches or even on the commercial quality...
Again, it is a VERY GOOD musical composition...But it takes three to make an all time best song- singer, music director and the whole band,and the lyricist. To me : Manna de-Shankar Jaikishan-Hasrat Jaipuri has created the best monsoon song ever: "Lapak Jhapak tu aaye badarwa" (Boot Polish) closely followed by " O Sajna , barkha bahaar aayi" (Lata,Salil Chowdhury in Parakh). This post has been edited by sudip: Jan 1 2005, 07:54 AM |
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| ashima0 |
Jan 2 2005, 02:55 AM
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#4
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 268 Joined: 8-August 04 Member No.: 71 |
It released Friday the 17th I think. In that first week it was # 18 on the NYT list, though its fallen since then. The DVD is not out yet of course. |
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| ashima0 |
Jan 2 2005, 03:12 AM
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#5
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 268 Joined: 8-August 04 Member No.: 71 |
I was arguing that Rahman does manage precisely this. From Roja to Swades there's an exponential increase in sophistication in capturing mood. And his sheer range is incredible - he can do Bombay Tapori in 'Rangeela' to Carnatic in Alai Payuthey (Saathiya in Hindi) to North Indian folk beats in swades. Again, I would strongly recomend 'pal pal hai bhaari' to see (or rather hear) this. I love the Parakh song too (I can't recall the Boot Polish though) but 'Barkha bahaar' is not so much about the season as that particular movie moment. No film song I recall quite captures the exhilaration of the monsoons better than 'Ghana Ghanan', in this listener's humble opinion. |
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| sudip |
Jan 2 2005, 09:33 AM
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#6
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 113 Joined: 13-December 04 Member No.: 205 |
I thought there is not a single drop of rain in the movie sequence..BTW, if you love monsoon songs, listen to Manna in Boot Polish..Don't get me wrong! I think "Ghanan Ghanan" is a very good composition... Also I find the difference between Manna and Udit too wide to be closed by Rahman's genius. I will tell you my problem with Rahman.. I think his interludes are too complex for a film song. It drifts away so much from the song theme that the Mukhda, Antara becomes obfuscated and lost.. Lot of people love A.R for this...But to me the singer's role is marginalized, so much so, that no one remembers the song/singer over the music (Quiz: Who sang the "Ramta Jogi" song in Taal?? I bet 8 of 10 people do not remember. It was great orchestra, not a song). Madan Mohan was genius used to compose intricate interludes (Woh bhuli dastaan, Naina Barse, ....countless) that drifted away..But he shared the space with the singer, so much so, that Lata-MM became a pair that generations of listeners adored.. If you simply go by range-Shankar Jaikishan's genius is almost accepted in the industry..It is almost unbelievable that "Suku Suku" and "Ahesaan tera hoga mujh par" are from the same movie (Junglee)..I find it amazing that "Sur na Saje" (Basant Bahar) and "Lal Chadi Maidan Khadi" (Janwar) was composed by the same people.. And more so, because both are superhits that survived almost half a century.. This post has been edited by sudip: Jan 2 2005, 09:34 AM |
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| ashima0 |
Jan 4 2005, 07:37 AM
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#7
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 268 Joined: 8-August 04 Member No.: 71 |
I just found it after a lengthy search. It does have a very solid opening section... But (there it comes:) the reason I prefer 'ghanan ghanan' is the reason you pointed out - for the polyphonic quality. Udit and Manna Dey cannot be compared also because in 'ghanan ghanan' Udit does not play the role Manna Dey has in 'lapak jhapak'. In that sense, yes, Rahman's music is really more 'composition' than song, which is fine by me. Voice is just one of the instruments he deploys - but he can deploy it to great effect when he chooses - note 'yeh rishta' in 'meenaxi'. Possibly the crux of it lies in the fact that to those of us ignoramuses without a classically trained ear, Rahman is far more accessible. The emotional quality of his music at least to me is tremendous. A Rahman composition often makes me happy, in the most non-trivial fashion. |
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| blueneck |
Jan 5 2005, 05:03 AM
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#8
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 member Group: maha contributors Posts: 251 Joined: 12-November 04 Member No.: 180 |
listened to it (swades song). sounds too synthetic. it sounds too dramatic to be devotional. the emotion is hiding behind the synthesizer, i think. but of course, i feel that, for a devotional, you only need a singer, or for a movie song, you might go as far as a harmonium/tanpura, and a drum+cymbal. but that's just me. and, further, what's the idea behind having the same song "pal pal hai bhaari" as an instrumental ? Haven't seen the movie yet- maybe will have to rethink after i watch it.
-------------------- "Be humble and admit your faults, I would if I had any" - Milton Berle.
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| ashima0 |
Jan 5 2005, 05:50 AM
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#9
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 268 Joined: 8-August 04 Member No.: 71 |
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| champa |
Jan 5 2005, 06:55 AM
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 member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 2616 Joined: 23-November 04 Member No.: 191 |
nice! seems like a good movie. -------------------- Show me your jalwa . . .
"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras, unless, of course, you're in Africa." |
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| ashima0 |
Jan 8 2005, 07:50 AM
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#11
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 268 Joined: 8-August 04 Member No.: 71 |
Rahman and Durbar in Subhash Ghai's 'Kisna' - I've been listening to 'Hum hai iss pal yahan' .
The movie is (cl)aiming to be the next crossover hit - http://www.kisnathefilm.com/# The trailers...well, are not too promising:-( But maybe I'm already biased - Farrukh Dhondy (who is credited on screenplay I think) wrote some pretty unflattering things about it on Tehelka under the title 'Written by a chattering mob'!! |
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| sudip |
Jan 16 2005, 12:35 PM
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#12
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 113 Joined: 13-December 04 Member No.: 205 |
BTW the music of "Yuva" did not sound even remotely Bengali to me.. I am not sure what defense you will have for that..The setting was Bengali, the place was Calcutta.......... |
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| ashima0 |
Jan 17 2005, 12:15 AM
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#13
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 268 Joined: 8-August 04 Member No.: 71 |
I have to agree Yuva's music is not true to the setting at all.
But then that was also something that puzzled me about the movie - it seemed remarkably clueless about Kolkata/ Bengali culture. For a story supposedly set in Kolkata, only one of its six leading characters (Rani Mukherjee) is bonafide Bengali - and Om Puri as the Bengali politician was a stretch. So I do think Rahman is merely following the movie director's confusion. If Mani Ratnam had wanted an authentically Bengali score, he would not/ should not have chosen Rahman at all. That said, I enjoyed the music  |
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| Jai Malhar |
Jan 17 2005, 12:19 AM
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#14
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 member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 2154 Joined: 5-September 04 Member No.: 117 |
I think the Calcutta setting was incidental. The title of the film Yuva says it all. In that sense, the music was completely in harmony with the youthful spirit of the film.
-------------------- apani to aadat hai ke hum kuch nahin kehte.
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| arnab |
Jan 17 2005, 01:17 AM
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#15
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bandwidth glutton Group: founding members Posts: 15118 Joined: 21-July 04 From: northfield, minnesota Member No.: 1 |
sudip, doesn't this seem a little unfair? how many of the old masters' music scores were regionally correct either? for example, how bengali is the music of "sahib, biwi aur ghulam"? arnab -------------------- yeh sab kya ho raha hai, beta duryodhan? arnab@anothersubcontinent.com |
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| Jai Malhar |
Jan 17 2005, 03:41 AM
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#16
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member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 2154 Joined: 5-September 04 Member No.: 117 |
I think the one (only?) music director who composes music perfectly in tune with the film is Vanraj Bhatia. Consider Trikaal and Sardari Begum - two films as far apart as possible, in terms of period, culture and social mileau. I believe Bhatia has been formally educated in both Western and Indian classical.
Another music director who pours great love and care into background score is Satyajit Ray (of course), who also had the benefit of an active interest in both Western and Indian classical. JM (long time fan of Vanraj Bhatia) -------------------- apani to aadat hai ke hum kuch nahin kehte.
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| ajit |
Jan 17 2005, 10:49 AM
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#17
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 bandwidth eater Group: founding members Posts: 4926 Joined: 21-July 04 Member No.: 2 |
Is Calcutta/Kolkata so provincial a town that this is cause for comment ?  |
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| sudip |
Jan 17 2005, 01:33 PM
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#18
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 113 Joined: 13-December 04 Member No.: 205 |
Exactly spot on! Though I would differ on "Sahib, Biwi aur Ghulam" (S.D being overtly Bengali throughout), I NEVER claimed that the old masters were correct. In most cases they were NOT truthful to the setting. But Ashima claimed that Rahman adheres to the correctness. So I am not claiming anything, but actually disproving a claim.. By and large, of the big names, Naushad comes closest to being sincere to the setting (Mughal-E-Azam, Ganga Jumna, Baiju Bawra, Palki, Chaudvin Ka Chand) came closest to being true to the setting. |
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| ashima0 |
Jan 17 2005, 08:00 PM
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#19
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 268 Joined: 8-August 04 Member No.: 71 |
Sudip, I did not claim that Rahman's musical range is all-encompassing, merely that it is very wide. And to the latter claim I still stick - none of the old masters could do Carnatic classical or Tamil folk to my knowledge the way Rahman can do Hindustani classical and Punjabi folk. If that is not inspiring, what is? |
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| Jai Malhar |
Jan 17 2005, 08:45 PM
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#20
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member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 2154 Joined: 5-September 04 Member No.: 117 |
as evidenced from recordings of court musicians from that era? ;-) -------------------- apani to aadat hai ke hum kuch nahin kehte.
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| sudip |
Jan 17 2005, 11:09 PM
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#21
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 113 Joined: 13-December 04 Member No.: 205 |
To Ashima:
I disagree. There are lot of R.D and S.J numbers that are Carnatic. I agree, however, that the number is very very small.. The reason does not lie in their incapabilities, it is because Bollywood mainstream culture (with the exception of some pretty round faced damsels like Rajasri, Sri Devi etc) till the 90's was North Indian. The actors were North Indian, the directors were North Indian (Sagar, Desai, Puri, Chopra, Sippy, ), the stories were North Indian .. It is only in the mid 90's, somewhat co-incidentally with the IT revolution in the south that Southern culture started trickling in and finally now, has become a mainstream. Interestingly, the same period saw the emergence of Raos and Gowdas as the head of the nation. To Jai:
Good point. I saw it coming.. The emotive feeling is purely notional though pre-programmed in our system. That is why we like the authencity of Ben Hur ( no one has recordings of chariot race from the pre-Christ era in his handycam ), Ten Commandments, Titanic (has anyone seen it drowning??) etc..But leaving out the court music, Naushad produced a gem in Ganga Jamuna. The music is straight out of the Eastern UP heartland. Honestly, I do not care if a music directors sticks to one region, as long as it is as good as Ganga Jamuna.. This post has been edited by sudip: Jan 17 2005, 11:13 PM |
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| ashima0 |
Jan 21 2005, 12:23 AM
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#22
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 268 Joined: 8-August 04 Member No.: 71 |
Could you give some examples? One of the problems is finding much of the old music, particularly Naushad - its just not easily available if there's no convenient Hindi music store nearby. I listen to most of my music off the web for that reason. I'll tell my many South Indian friends about the mainstreaming of their culture - that'll surely raise a laugh. But Rahman surely had a hand in that too (pre-IT) with Roja and Mani Ratnam. |
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| sudip |
Jan 21 2005, 02:33 AM
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#23
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member Group: maha contributors Posts: 113 Joined: 13-December 04 Member No.: 205 |
Ashima,
You are correct in that most south Indian strains came either as light comic (Padosan style) or via their northern raga counterparts (Darbari, Iman , Abhir)..Rarely as in V. Santharam films (again note the producer-director) there were heavy strains. I do agree with you that Rahman along with SPB and to some extent Chitra and Illayaraja was the pioneer in "mainstreaming" South indian music.. In fact, even Indian classical music is Hindustani dominated in terms of fame (How many times do we utter South Indian musicians in the same breath as Hariprasad Chaurasiya or Amjad or or Shivkumar Sharma? ). The so-called Dravidian-Aryan divide and the recent changes can be a subject of serious research. As I mentioned number of times, I judge music by the extent it stirs the soul. And I also mentioned that I do not think it is Rahman's fault (except that he does not give full liberty to the voice).. In Hindi movies, since songs are related to a character or a sequence, the singer plays a big big role, since it represents the character. To reiterate, I see a bigger void in voice.. Someone mentioned that Udit sounded like Rafi in the "Dilruba" song of Nadeem Shravan's "Bewaafa". I listened to that with great expectations. Believe me, I had to listen to three Rafi songs after that, to sanitize my soul and ear.. In this song Udit fluctuated too often, with the "swars" were not hitting the consistent place...Rafi even in his deathbed, would not waver unnecessarily (btw that unwavering steadiness without losing fluidity distinguishes him from Mahendra Kapoor).. I remember Rahman mentioning Naushad as his inspiration in an interview.. Though their styles differ, something interesting to know about.. |
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| Rumali Roti |
Dec 30 2008, 04:47 AM
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#24
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member Group: bandwidth eaters Posts: 4196 Joined: 27-July 04 Member No.: 19 |
I didn't know whether to put this in the Slumdog Millionaire thread or drop it here (please move if necessary) --
A R Rahman: First Indian composer to receive a Golden Globe nomination. Can't succesfully link to the article (tried twice), but it's all over the press. This post has been edited by Rumali Roti: Dec 30 2008, 04:51 AM |
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| arunr |
Dec 31 2008, 04:07 AM
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#25
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 member Group: maha contributors Posts: 312 Joined: 17-December 04 From: Tampa, FL Member No.: 211 |
QUOTE(Rumali Roti @ Dec 29 2008, 06:17 PM)  I didn't know whether to put this in the Slumdog Millionaire thread or drop it here (please move if necessary) -- A R Rahman: First Indian composer to receive a Golden Globe nomination. Can't succesfully link to the article (tried twice), but it's all over the press. Here you go Rumali Roti: First Indian composer to get Golden Globe nomination I read this first: Indian Composer a.r. Rahman Nominated for Golden Globe .. and it notes that ".. Indian entries 'Jodha Akbar' and 'Taare Zamin Par' were not considered for a nomination in the Best Foreign Film category, reports ..". No comments on the first, but TZP could have been there. Whatever! -------------------- Have a wonderful day!
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